the smedley log - suburban scrawl

They just keep coming back

I was at work the other day, talking to a co-worker, when the subject shifted to the fairer sex. He had much more to say about it than I did. He elaborated on what he liked about females and his (apparently) vast experience with them. The real gem of his monologue was this:

“I just keep treating [women] like [dirt], and they just keep coming back. I can’t explain it; that’s just how it works.”

(Not wanting to lose this site’s G-rating, I edited the preceding for content, but the meaning is essentially unchanged.)

The above philosophy on gender relations is one that has always confounded me. In various conversations I’ve had with female friends, most laugh it off and reply to the effect that they’d never put up with someone like that. Yet I know, because of the aforementioned co-worker’s “success” with women and because of more than a couple women I’ve known who routinely tolerate his type, that his approach has a higher success rate than some might think.

I won’t lie. I have, at one point or another, wondered what it would be like to have the ability to tame women with this type of cruelty; but it always passes.

I’ve often wondered what makes his routine so effective. Is he so good at hiding his intentions that women are just bound to fall for it? Or is it in the women he chooses – might they be more susceptible to shoddy treatment, for whatever reason? I really don’t know. In specific women I’ve known who seem prone to being used like this, there do seem to be patterns, but the details vary from person to person – and I’m far from the most clinical researcher on the subject.

I’m curious if any female readers with insight into female reactions to this approach want to chime in. Pseudonyms and well-disguised accounts are welcome, of course. I don’t need to know who, but I would really like to know why.

I’m not female, but that kind of “coming back” always astonishes me. I wonder if it’s a variation that people hear as an admonition before they get married: Women marry men hoping they can change them and men marry women hoping they never change.

Many cliches are born of truth, Frank, so I suspect there may be a connection. And now that you’ve mentioned it, that wasn’t even an angle I was contemplating at first, but it makes for a good tangent to consider

I’m not sure that this tendency to return to or tolerate an a**hole is just a “woman’s issue”. I’ve seen quite a few men eat out of the hands of manipulative women. It goes deeper than the “Women marry men hoping they can change them…” cliche. I think many couples are engaged in some kind of subconcious power struggle. It’s too bad.

I am as far removed from the strata of real girls as you can get, and hover at being skeeved at the idea of dating again say 80% of the time, but I have 2 observations for you:

1-I come from not the white-picket-fencest background and my 2 sisters (who are much more “real girls” than me) went 2 different routes – one sis has married her first love and been married 25 years, She has given her kids a very stable, normal loving environment. Her husband is also from a dysfunctional family. The other sis tends to always be in a difficult relationship. I have always felt the sis mentioned 1st did an extremely difficult thing -building normal without even a foundation of normal. The second sis is doing what is more second nature to the dysfunctional background – we grew up with a messed up homelife, so messed up is normal for us.

2-your coworker comes across as someone for whom good behavior requires effort and the only reward would be having good luck romantically, but does not need to be well behaved as he does fine without having to change. Whereas, even if every female you respect came here and said they preferred to be treated like dirt, that would be so against the grain of who you are that you would never implement it and would just go looking to the ends of the earth for a girl who would allow you to treat her well. I don’t think you could respect a girl who would want less from you. The reward for you is not in the number of conquests but in the quality

Chloe – Thanks for the insight.

I’ll allow that you’re entirely correct. I know there are many situations where men are manipulated by women as well. My observation came mainly from the direct knowledge of my co-worker’s explicit attitude towards the women he mistreats. I have not had as much opportunity to hear women speak so proudly of their cruelty toward men, though I’m willing to accept that it happens, if that’s what you’re suggesting.

In which case, I’ll rephrase the question: “why do any of us (male of female) put up with it?”

Ellen – you’re enough of a real girl to qualify for this query. Funny, though, that I had a similar pair of sisters in mind when I read your account of your siblings. That makes me wonder what I’ve also wondered before, which is how two people from extremely similar backgrounds come to approach life and relationships from opposite directions. It seems to happen a lot.

And though my co-worker seems to be much more comfortable in his current pattern than I would be, behaving well takes effort for everyone, I’m sure. Though you’re probably right that I have difficulty accepting women who seem comfortable settling for so much less, but it’s probably not a good idea to delve too deeply into my relationship psyche right now.

I’ve reacted this way with ex-girlfriend who treated me bad. It’s the whole White Castle complex.

It’s absolutely horrible for you.

But you can’t help but go back for more.

Oddly enough, I’ve never heard the term “White Castle complex” before, though I have to admit I do know what it’s like to tolerate an unkind woman rather than flee.

Many of the people like this have personality disorders – which can’t really be successfully treated. They really shine at manipulating people by faking sincerity – and then crushing them. The person on the other end thinks it’s an aberration, because he or she is so “caring” and vulnerable at other times.

Psych 101: Sporadic reinforcement is much more powerful than all positive or negative.